From Curiosity to Core Strategy: Looking Back on Two Years of AI in Business

Courtney Baker: [00:00:00] According to Google’s AI overview, roughly 90% of podcasts fail to make it past episode three, or of those that do an additional 90%, stop putting out new episodes before they make it to 20. Today we’re putting out episode 100, which I guess makes us the most successful podcast ever Move over serial AI knowhow coming through.

Hi, I’m Courtney Baker, and this is AI Knowhow from Knownwell, Helping you reimagine your business in the AI era. As always, I’m joined by Knownwell, CEO at David DeWolf, chief Product and Technology Officer Mohan Rao and Nord Light CEO at Pete Buer. For today’s show, we’re going to take a look at the last two years in ai, or the last 14 years in AI according to Mohans calculation.

Let’s dive in.

guys.

David DeWolf: That’s a new opening. I haven’t seen that one [00:01:00] before.

Courtney Baker: I know that’s because it is episode 100.

David DeWolf: Wow. Are we gonna do something different this time around?

Besides just open with guys.

Courtney Baker: Oh, everybody listening. David and I are friends. Don’t let his and making fun of me think otherwise. So we have, okay. It’s a hundred episodes. We have done a lot of talking. We’ve gone from AI being a curiosity for executives to being front and center in board rooms, client conversations and strategy decks today, instead of looking ahead, I’d like us to, oh, just take a moment.

Pause and reflect, and a few questions for you. Two out of the gate, [00:02:00] what have we learned in the last two years in the US conversation,

David DeWolf: Mm.

Courtney Baker: what lessons should leaders carry forward into the next two years

David DeWolf: It’s been a crazy two years. I mean, if you think of everything that’s happened, you know, like two years ago, like AI was. This very interesting curiosity that everybody had, right? Um, and I think the first lesson is that this curiosity has become our core story, right? This is no longer about experimentation.

It’s no longer about just being curious about technology and this advancement. It’s actually now about the. Core business. And you see boards asking about ROI, you see, uh, CEOs mandating that we leverage it and pulling back budgets for headcount. Um, you see very real issues being grappled with, uh, around how does this help us differentiate, um, how do we leverage it to propel the business forward to go [00:03:00] faster?

what are the ramifications of it, et cetera, et cetera. And so it’s a, it’s a real thing. Like it, the, the transformation of business has started. It’s no longer curiosity. It’s no longer a side project. I think the second big lesson for me is that, um. We at the beginning thought of this as a technology problem, uh, not necessarily a technology problem, but a technology opportunity.

It turns out the biggest bottleneck for adoption is actually a cultural one, even a mindset one, right? It is driving such transformative change that we have to realize the change management is real, but also just like the mindset of being willing to. Challenge the status quo before you even change.

Manage an organization. You have to change, manage yourself. Thinking about how we can fundamentally do things very, very differently from how we’ve done it before. Um, and that would be the, the second lesson for me. Um, and, and if I had to pick a third one, um, I would say that it’s all about [00:04:00] taking those two lessons and then.

Extrapolating, how do we execute? And I think it is, yeah, pick something small. You prove value, and you take the results of that value and reinvest them in to go bigger and bigger and bigger. And we’ve talked on this podcast of a lot of different ways to do that, right? We can do it. Bottoms up, empowering people to manage and leverage AI on their own and have this grassroots effort, then we can think even top down, what are those things that require sponsorship?

And even starting those small and growing over time. Um, but, but that playbook of, you know, very similar to digital transformation, how do you start small, prove value, double down on what works, um, I think is playing out and working.

Mohan Rao: You know, I think there is a scale between AI years and human years. It’s something like, it’s something like every AI year is about. Seven or eight human years. So we are kind of in this teenage phase. Uh, it’s very messy right [00:05:00] now. Um, so I agree with David. I think two years back it was, um, more like a pilot.

It was a shiny object. Now it is emerging into a platform, uh right, but it is still very messy because if your data is a mess. Your AI predictions are just a faster way to become being wrong. Uh, right. So, so it is kind of like you don’t know what’s right, what’s, this is at scale. I’m not talking about you typing into chat GPT, it’s about scale.

I think that’s the second thing that the, um, data governance, security, privacy, all of these things matter a lot. The third thing that I would say is around the, uh, speed of experimentation is gonna matter a lot. It’s about disciplined iteration. Uh, that’s what compounds, uh, it’s not, uh, ad hoc. I did this pilot and this pilot and whatever.

That’s where we were and this where, uh, we should be now. And then [00:06:00] finally, what is changing a lot, and we are not there yet, but what likely will be happening in the next two years is that you are not logging into ai. AI is logging into you, uh, right. It

Courtney Baker: Hmm.

Mohan Rao: your operating system. Right. It’s that sort of transformation that we are in the middle of.

And, um, it’ll continue to go, but ultimately it’s about, um, uh, it’s no longer a curiosity or a, uh, shiny object. It’s, it’s a real business platform for transformation.

Courtney Baker: I’ll tell you how I know that is true. I went to the doctor on Friday, and this is not some high tech doctor. Matter of fact, I had to call him four times to get an appointment. Okay? So I get there. My I, my doctor permission and I had to fill out a form already, so they double ask for permission to record our conversation and you know.

for ai. They’re using AI to [00:07:00] chat behind what they’re they’re doing, which I was like, I kind of was like, do y’all Ismail singing this same reaction in that Wendy’s, I haven’t mentioned this on the podcast before, that Wendy’s drive-through whose AI is on point taking my order. Um, have y’all experienced this yet?

I

David DeWolf: I haven’t done that yet.

Courtney Baker: y’all It’s like,

David DeWolf: Is it every Wendy’s?

Courtney Baker: I don’t know because I don’t go

David DeWolf: I don’t go to Wendy’s,

so I’m gonna have to, I’m gonna have to step it up. Maybe we can get a sponsorship

so I can start gonna Wendy’s.

Courtney Baker: say it was a brand new, Wendy’s

David DeWolf: was a brand new,

Courtney Baker: Wendy’s.

David DeWolf: a brand new, Wendy’s currently being built in my hometown,

so I might have to go on opening day to check that

out.

Courtney Baker: . All that to say, we have come a long way in two years, uh, again, when we start seeing some of these industries that, you know, you’re not expecting to be cutting edge, uh, to be. They’re deploying these things and so yeah, it’s [00:08:00] happening guys.

These, we are in the teenage years for sure.

David DeWolf: Adolescents,

how do we know when we become adults?

Courtney Baker: I will tell you, when the CEOs of these tech companies stop fighting with each other, when the tantrums stop, that’s when we know, uh.

Mohan Rao: When there’s an RO, I return to the parents

Courtney Baker: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes. That is, that’s exactly right. Mohan. So obviously we’ve got Wendy’s, we’ve got the doctor’s office. But I think there’s probably some more things that we thought would happen, ’cause I didn’t think those two I just listed would happen. That haven’t happened. Is there anything that comes to mind that you’re still waiting on?

David DeWolf: You know, we had this era of the new AI devices. Um,

do you remember when all the devices were coming out, uh, your [00:09:00] Yep. Yep. And they were the biggest thing. And I think

a lot of people knew the first ones wouldn’t really play out, and there

was a lot of, you know, making fun of them as they were coming out.

But I think that we legitimately thought that one would take root by now, that there would

be a new form factor that came out. Now I think there’s a lot of hope. In, um, you know, open AI and the, the deal they made with Johnny Ive, and, and his, uh, business that there’s one coming. But I don’t think we’ve seen a new device that is truly AI first that has redefined, um, kind of the form factor for this era.

And I’m a little bit surprised by that. I

would’ve thought we’d have a first version that people were actually using that early adopters were experimenting with right now.

And I don’t feel like we do.

Courtney Baker: have had a, because we live in storm Alley here in Nashville, I have had a roofer come to my door with the RayBan meta glasses. Um, [00:10:00] he actually evaluated my roof with those glasses.

David DeWolf: Yeah.

Courtney Baker: now do you count that as an AI

David DeWolf: I’m looking for consumer, right? Like I think there’s probably, I don’t think those are consumer applications,

right? That’s a, that’s not mass consumer. Not mass consumer. That’s a business application.

Right. That, That, would be like if the only people that use the iPhone were people that happen to be in delivery trucks.

Right. Using it. But it it’s

not, it’s mass adaption.

Courtney Baker: they’re, they’re using it for business,

David DeWolf: That’s right.

That’s right.

Courtney Baker: just like people walking around every

David DeWolf: Not just for a individual consumer purpose.

Courtney Baker: Right. Yes. Although, you know, last night realized that my husband did not know that I was gonna be outta town next week, and this maybe we should be wearing these meta glasses so we could just roll back, you know, on the video. Uh, and just find [00:11:00] out, hey, did Courtney ever tell Chase about.

David DeWolf: The replay glasses.

That’s what, you want. Yeah.

Courtney Baker: is how we get consumers in on this husband, wife, you

David DeWolf: You know,

I’m looking to try to help the divorce rate go down, not up, Courtney. so I think I’m gonna hold back on that. That

would be good for humanity

Courtney Baker: actually, maybe you would be helping because if those ray bands downloaded into my task list, like reminders, like your daily overview

David DeWolf: Okay. That’s better than the replay glasses. I, I like

that idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Courtney Baker: Okay.

David DeWolf: Do you know how much trouble I would get into if

we had real time, real replay?

Courtney Baker: yeah. Don’t anybody do that. That’s a bad idea. That’s a good point, yeah.

Mohan Rao: That’s so funny. Yeah.

Courtney Baker: Mohan, what about you?

Mohan Rao: Years back, I would’ve said with all the, uh, momentum around open source, that there would be a lot more open source

David DeWolf: Uh, [00:12:00] interesting. That’s a good one.

Mohan Rao: um,

Courtney Baker: is a good one.

Mohan Rao: you know, it’s not happened.

Courtney Baker: Yeah.

Mohan Rao: right. So because I think it’s much harder for, um, uh, for companies to build their own custom models. And we all more and more and more depend on the foundational public models by these large companies.

I would say that’s been pretty much, um, that’s a surprise from, um. Two years back thinking now, um, the other one that surprises me is you would think that one of the Fortune 500 companies or Fortune 2000 companies would’ve just. itself and said, we are AI native now, and we are gonna put this thing out there.

Even from a PR perspective, nobody has done it. None of the larger companies have done it. Yeah. You think somebody would’ve, uh, somebody in trouble maybe would’ve done it. Uh, but I can’t think of any because I think the culture and change management are really, really hard.

David DeWolf: here’s another one. I think I’m [00:13:00] surprised that Apple hasn’t done better navigating

the shift. Right? Like for a while we thought they were being, um. I don’t know. It’s kinda like being fashionably late, right? They’re just the

innovator that’s never first of the game, but crushes everybody else.

Now we’re like, Hmm, this is getting a little bit, uh, long in the tooth. I, I think, uh, they’ve just missed the mark.

Um, and I think we’re all surprised by that. Like it, it feels par for the course now, but if you rewind to two years ago, none of us would’ve expected that.

Mohan Rao: That’s, that’s a really good point. Where, where do you think that is?

Courtney Baker: I keep thinking they know something. We don’t. It’s like a,

I’m like a conspiracy theorist.

Mohan Rao: yeah. You know, it seems like it is a different type of skillset, right? So even for Apple. You know, they didn’t get into, uh, social, uh, right when they could have, you can say iMessage is the best they’ve

David DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

Mohan Rao: it comes to

Courtney Baker: Hmm. That’s a good point.

Mohan Rao: uh, they’ve really not done, maybe it’s a different skillset, uh, than what they’re good [00:14:00] at.

David DeWolf: I, I think there’s a lot of truth to that, Mohan. I also think there’s a different skillset. Um, Tim Cook, I think is a hardcore operator. I don’t know that he’s an innovator. Right. And if you look at where did Apple really make it, it was the iPhone, right? And that, to your point, was a different skillset, just technology wise, but also that came from. Who, right. Um, it came from Mr. Apple. It didn’t come from,

um, Tim Cook. Right. It came from Steve Jobs. Um, and so I think Steve Jobs and, and Johnny Ives, uh, drove innovation in the past. And Tim Cook has done a phenomenal job. He’s a great leader, but he has made that company an operating machine and it’s, it’s hard to innovate and come up with brand new ideas.

And I think you miss curve sometimes when you’re too much of an operator.

Mohan Rao: Yeah. And I think there’s something to say about not being founder led, uh, right. To make the short turns when it’s not a crisis, uh, right. [00:15:00] It’s something that only founders can do. In that sense, I think Microsoft and Google have done amazingly well

David DeWolf: Right.

Mohan Rao: to the rule,

David DeWolf: Yep.

Mohan Rao: it requires somebody like a Zuck,

David DeWolf: Mm-hmm.

Mohan Rao: meta in a totally different way.

David DeWolf: right.

Mohan Rao: So it’s very hard for professional executives to do that.

David DeWolf: That’s a great point.

Courtney Baker: David Mohan, happy 100 episodes. It’s been a joy. I’ve learned a lot and hopefully for all of those listening you have as well.

Thank you as always.

Mohan Rao: thank you, Courtney. Thanks David.

David DeWolf: Thanks.

Mohan Rao: a hundred episodes.

Courtney Baker: birthday to us.

Mohan Rao: birthday.

Courtney Baker: The new era of commercial intelligence. Well, it’s here if you’re interested in having real time objective intelligence on the health of your commercial relationships. [00:16:00] You might be interested in trying out Knownwell, so stop flying blind and start sprinting ahead.

Go to Knownwell dot com slash experience to set up a time to speak with a Knownwell team.

Courtney Baker: Puer has been writing shotgun with us for nearly 100 episodes of AI knowhow, so wanted to take a look back on the last two years of AI with Pete as well.

Pete Buer, how are you?

Pete Buer: Hi. I am good, Courtney. How are you?

Courtney Baker: I’m doing great. know, today we are celebrating. Something that you’ve been a big part of and that’s making it to 100 episodes. I know. Big day. So few podcasts make it really honestly anywhere close to this and I just couldn’t let today go by without getting your thoughts and your reflections on the last 100 episode.

What stands out to you as you think back [00:17:00] on 100 episodes?

Pete Buer: Oh, thanks for asking. my mind first went to, you know, can I come up a li with a list of. David Letterman. Top 10 cool things that we learned, you know, across our time together. But I, I kept going to my heart rather than my head

as I thought about this, this time together. Um, I feel like X years from now, when we look back on this time, much more starkly than we can appreciate.

Now we’re gonna see that this was a moment of migration in our lives as modern humans. And I feel gratitude for having had the invitation to kind of, I don’t know, commentate or observe or, or participate in the, the change that’s happening now. Um, and I think about the, the 100 episodes as 100 chances to see something [00:18:00] fresh, to see something cool that’s going on.

To learn something man, in a lifetime, do you get a hundred chances to learn something really cool? I mean, I suppose so, but still I think it’s a lot. and maybe most importantly, a hundred amazing people. When I think about the people that we’ve talked to in each of these episodes, from entrepreneurs to business leaders, to government representatives to academics, to uh, theologians to.

Philosophers,

Courtney Baker: Yeah.

Pete Buer: they’ve all shared this bond. Like yeah, they’re all interested in the terrain, but they also all have been so amazingly, careful, full,

full of care, uh, toward the space, toward, toward their contribution. I don’t know. I just feel like the whole thing has been one massive, bright, shiny gift to unwrap, and I’m just super grateful for it.

Courtney Baker: You know, PII love that and I, I think it’s so [00:19:00] true, but I do find myself at this moment wondering how in the world did our Pepsi 3000 tasting not get in the list?

Pete Buer: It would’ve been in the Letterman list, I think.

Courtney Baker: Oh, for sure, for sure. Um, I couldn’t resonate more and I think it’s been just such a joy. You’re such a lifelong learner, and I think it has shown in how.

Pete Buer: So,

Courtney Baker: held these discussions and really valued the time with each person

Pete Buer: yeah.

Courtney Baker: the show

Pete Buer: Yeah.

Courtney Baker: over the last 100 episode, and I just think it’s been such a joy, um, to hear your spirit in that and kind of taking us along in, uh, those conversations and those thoughts. Um, it’s been kind of wonderful to kind of see through your eyes in those interviews.

Pete Buer: Well, thank you for that, Courtney. And I, I, think it’s that everyone has something special to teach,

you know, and our our job is to find our way to it together, and [00:20:00] it’s been fun.

Courtney Baker: That’s awesome. Okay, Pete, last question.

Pete Buer: ma’am.

Courtney Baker: Anything that you are surprised that you haven’t seen happen yet that you thought, Hey, over the course of 100 episodes, I thought we’d be talking about fill in the blank.

Pete Buer: I mean, I’m, I’m pretty surprised, pretty psyched that Arnold Schwarzenegger hasn’t shown up on my doorstep. Like that was the big one I’ve been worried about all along. Uh, or the, the guy who came afterwards who was like liquid metal and driven by ai.

Um, and maybe that’s the thing, like I, I would’ve imagined by now something really awful

would’ve happened. And, uh, you know, w whistling past the graveyard, knock on wood, whatever your superstition

that’ll lead you to hasn’t happened yet. And

so, I hope, I hope, we’ll all. Especially the people who control the technology will, will continue to bring care, uh, to its stewardship. But that’s my big surprise, I

guess.

Courtney Baker: [00:21:00] Well, Pete, I have to say it. Thank you as always, you.

Pete Buer: Thank you, Courtney.

Courtney Baker: So for our 100th episode, I wanted to turn things over to chat GBT “

Owen: Thanks as always for listening and watching. Hitting 100 episodes is a huge milestone, and normally we’d ask one of our AI friends to weigh in here — but Courtney, I’d love to hear from you instead. After all these conversations, what’s surprised you most about how leaders are actually using AI? And looking ahead, what excites you most about the next 100 episodes?”

Courtney Baker: in the next 100 episodes, I’m really excited about interviewing Sam Altman after his documentary. In addition, I’m excited for more workflows that are easy and stay up to date, and that anybody can really do and manage. Mm. I’m also personally very excited [00:22:00] for more AI in our households to help us get more done with things like our laundry.

Can it help with that? I don’t know, but I think we’ll find out in the next 100 episodes.

Owen: And now, you’re in the know. Thanks as always for listening, we’ll see you next week with more AI applications, discussions, and experts.” Good job Chat, GPD, and I’ll take it back over next week.